Friday, April 24, 2009

What I learned

I will join Master Dogen today in laying open a not so glorious detail of my past with women. Also, I will try to explain an important point I made in the last post (and raised again in 691's comment).

I have repeatedly made the claim that the male Madonna/Whore complex (syndrome?) roots in the schismatic nature of female sexuality:

Woman fantasize about being a good girl and a nurturing mother, as well as about being a strong man's dirty whore.

And, as we all know - women tend to solicit and offer the first (loving, nurturing, cuddly-asexual) side of femininity to a certain type of "nice" guy, whereas they will reveal their hyper-sexual, kinky side to a few select men only. To a naive outsider it might thus seem as if women "share a secret"/take part in a conspiracy with a small group of men.

As we all know, Biologist (and Evolutionary Psychologist) believe that this can easily explained by two mating strategies (tactics) that females employ:

Long term mating with low status males (for whom sticking to the female/monitoring her monogamy is the best option),
Short term mating with high status males (who can afford not to spend any resources on offspring)

Some have hypothesized (and observed) that in order to join that secret society of highs status males one simply needs to understand and appreciate the fact that "wanting to be treated like a whore" is just another part of female sexuality.

Women are social beings. Women feel that security in life stems from being part of a strong social network. Their greatest fear is social embarrassment and exclusion. Thus, they are constantly worried about their "reputation" ( i.e. screwing up their chances to get the nurturing, loving mother side sated).

Women also are receptive beings. They like to be guided. As a result:

If a man signals he (just) wants a Slut, a woman might become just that for him.
And a man who sends out "settling"/provider signals will get a Madonna in return

This observation is the very basis of female "dating rules":
A woman will test a man's willingness to invest in her by letting him pay for drinks, flowers, dinner, making him wait (i.e. pay even more in terms of time, attention and material resources) before the first sex. She might also test him for his opinions on casual sex (i.e. see if he is "judgmental"), and soon "accidentally" leave behind some of her stuff after a night of fun.

In other words, women "filter out" guys who might be willing to help her build a nest - simply by having them giving out resources. On the flip side, it is easier to have a one night stand with a woman if one refuses to invest anything (in terms of affection, attention - let alone drinks or dinner).

In reality, it is likely that there are few high status ("alpha") guys, who start racking up lays way before their peers. Plus, women will be more aroused and thus more openly sexually with these guys. As a result, alpha males will have more sexual experience and are more familiar with the raunchy side of female sexuality, hence treating women as if they were part of the secret society of rare men who get to see "the good girl's other side".

Now, how does this lead to:

Men tend to believe that there are two types of women: promiscuous "Sluts" and faithful "Madonnas"?

Here is what I think is going on:

1) First of all, one needs to appreciate the fact "alpha" is a relative term. The alpha is the individual with the highest social status of the group. Period.

Even in a group of submissive, socially inept nerds, there will still be some kind of social dynamics going on, resulting in an (unspoken) hierarchy between these guys. Whoever is the most relaxed, gets the most attention, has the final say, is the alpha of that group.
[Of course, any bar (being one of the nation's main meat markets) is likely to be filled with several guys who have gained enormous social status in various peer groups and thereby leave guys who are "lesser alphas" in their own peer groups little chance.]

2) The fact that we are constantly navigating between social groups and settings can give us different social status over time. This gives many beta males the chance to become the alpha of the group once in a while.

3) They will become extraordinarily attractive to women under these circumstances. Under these rare circumstances women might sense alpha status in these guys, not realizing that this is an abnormal state for these men. Women will treat these guys "as if", assuming they are very experienced "secret society" guys who racked up lays and do not need to "settle". The beta, accidentally turned alpha, will get the "full treatment" usually reserved for his more experienced peers.

4) The guy, used to being treated as "boyfriend material", will be shocked by what ensues.

5) The guy's cognitive dissonance will be solved by assuming that his assumption that she was a sweet, little, pure angel was flawed - he failed to see that she had a second nature. Instead he will decide that she simply is a slut (after all she behaves like the ones he has watched doing their thing diverse porn movie clips on the web for years).
In other words, as guys go through this experience, their only way out of a cognitive dilemma is to take on the M/W syndrome:
"What if he was wrong before and all the good girls he had (though of) were actually like this girl? This would mean they either might not see him as the full man or they might have gotten it somewhere else!
No! Those girls were different!."

Note, that I do not imply that any guy will have that experience, nor does this explain how alpha guys end up dividing women into M/W again. All this model explains is how a meme of "two kinds of women" can arise from a population of women that exhibits both properties over time (and with different partners).

My personal history is somewhat similar to what I outlined above.

I will never forget the first series of lays I accumulated in a very short amount of time once I got Game down. Mind you, I was the classic "long term dating kind of guy" before, unable to even hold up a conversation at a bar for more than five minutes. Sex meant vanilla "making love". My girl friends could not stand the idea of me doing anything else.

What I had to learn is that this was not because of them. It was because of me.

By learning routines which acted as quick fixes rather than learning to develop a coherent, attractive personality, I had quick successes - without being ready for the results yet.

Having impostured the biggest asshole in town for hours at a time, girls took me home in the stern belief that they had found the bad boy they were looking for. And they demanded the bad boy treatment once the clothes were off. They asked for things I thought a woman doesn't like. Things that nice guys simply don't do - because they believe that women do not like them.

They also had no inhibitions to show me their bad girl side once the clothes were back on. They talked openly about the things that they had done and how they had cheated on and walked all over the nice guys they were dating.
Nice guys - sheeps - like the one I had been. Sheeps like the one I still was under the wolve's fur.

Then again, I was picking these girls up in establishments where nice guys believe that only girls with questionable morals would go to. Was I just sampling a different female population?

It happened when I started to talk. When I told these girls about my past love life mainly consisting of serial, exclusive monogamous dating for years, the house of cards collapsed.

I remember their eyes. The moment of shock when they realized I was not who they thought I was. The moment they realized I was put in the wrong category, I had received the wrong treatment, seen the wrong side of them.

Then the backpaddeling:

"PUA: "I love to go out and hook up. I hate it when girls try to run my life"..
HB: "Me too.. I hooked up with guys all last year.. My boyfriend tried to control me, but I do what I want.. My girlfriends all do it too."
PUA: "Really? Cause to be honest, I've always felt like I'm a romantic guy.. And girls always cheat on me.. I want to find a girl who won't cheat."
HB: "I would never cheat. Guys are dogs. I'm always loyal."
PUA: "But didn't you say..."
HB: "No, I said nothing."
PUA: "No, you said that you don't let your boyfriend control you and you do what you want."
HB: "No, I didn't mean that. I'm not a slut. I have no idea what you're talking about, I didn't say that.

I had involuntarily perfomed a rapid Lover/Provider switch, such as the one above, and the result were incoherent messenges like the one above. It was then that it dawned on me:
There was no difference between the women I SNL'ed and my steady girl friends before. The angels of ignorance fell from my eyes. Everything had been mysterious to me before now made sense.

Given this experience, I would never believe a woman talking about her sexual past if I failed to conquer herwith assholery - and she felt safe in the presence of a non-judgmental promiscuous "secret society" man. Her story simply wouldn't be the same after a couple of dinner dates.

Thus, if you want to screen a woman for her actual dick number (and LTR potential), you need to seduce her with the same rapid escalation and tons of non-judgmentalness as any other women. It is only after she revealed that she is less hyper-promiscuous than the rest of Western women these days that you can turn your M/W scheme back on. If you fail to follow that rule, you might be the one implying an "M" on her - and she will play along accordingly.


  1. this details exactly what happened to me when I was 18. i met an older girl, who took me home, somehow thinking i was like her other rampaging ex's....and i was never the same in terms of how i viewed the world.

  2. Thus, if you want to screen a woman for her actual dick number (and LTR potential), you need to seduce her with the same rapid escalation and tons of non-judgmentalness as any other women.

    Exactly what I've found. It helps in getting the truth to let them know actually that you like hyper sexual women and that that usually goes with a high body count. This often takes some convincing. I've often had the count increase several times over time, in their telling of it, as I egg them on over time.

  3. Relative good girls, or real good girls do still exist though. Usually among the religious but not always. Not all wives will cheat with an alpha that games them right - though after a few years many will, particularly in certain situations. (things have been rocky between them and she's on a business trip -- big danger for hubby of even a pretty good girl wife.)

    Though as well most female sexuality is more pull, while male sexuality is heavily hormonally pushed. Sure there's some push on girls and women as well, but that varies a lot, including with age. High testosterone girls DO feel a lot of push for sex.

    Most girls though, if they have had really great sex with three or four or ten (or more) solid, true alphas, some of really short duration, some of fling type where maybe she comes to realize she was in a rotation, are going to feel FAR more pulled to casual sex with alphas than girls that have restricted themselves almost entirely, or entirely to relationship sex, most or all of which has been with higher betas or lower. As well she'll have had her heart broken several times, and then less so each time an alpha doesn't commit. This too will make her less leary of casual sex, but also far less able to feel a really strong bond with any man. Such women are I think nearly certain to cheat on their husbands -- probably even if he's an alpha, unless he's clearly her best alpha ever, but even then much more likely than good girls are.

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