Monday, March 1, 2010

Relationship Game - The Prelude

As promised a while ago, starting with this post, I will start a series on the use of Game within relationships. This will be mostly relevant for guys who are interested in achieving more than short term sexual escapades as well as girls who are puzzled about men and their behavior when it comes to relationships. We will even touch on the issue of homosexual relationships, as their social dynamics are telling about our general human needs when it comes to long term mating.

In this prelude I will first investigate the need for Relationship Game. This relates to the question when a man can stop worrying about the things he learned during pick-up (tl;dr: never), as well as the question as to why a high status male might decide to spend more time with one and the same girl while he could go and meet many new ones instead. We will touch slightly on the overlap between between pick up game and relationship game, but delve deeper onto this issue within the next post of this series.

To start off, here is a quote from a recent post at roissy's blog about pick up and relationships that gets right at the heart of the issue:
"A sneering accusation often heard from the arid, anti-seduction crowd is that the self-professed pickup gurus are never seen with a girlfriend, or otherwise have trouble keeping a girl for longer than a few weeks. Pay it no heed. It is the feeble bleat of the envious and the insecure."

I believe that that he is right in that good seducers do not even manage to have fulfilling relationships, but make for the best partners in romantic relationships. The reason for that is that it takes a man to truly understand how women tick to avoid the many pitfalls that come with extended periods of time spent together. More than that, it takes an almost intuitive insight into social dynamics for a man to be prepared for what happens when a woman decides she want more than a one time shot from a guy:

"Relationships are merely a continuation of pickup by other means."

The reason that there is the lingering notion that men who use Game are men who stay outside/cannot keep up with relationships is two-fold:
1) Men who are good at seducing women will be far more selective than regular men (lacking options) in their decision of whom they enter a relationship with.
2) Aspiring PUAs often lack the skill to keep a woman interested for extended periods of time.

Both these cases illustrate a somewhat surprising point: In order to pick a woman up, you merely need to have social status than the other available men. It is relatively easy to be "alpha" for a few hours. But, in order to have her faithfully stay on your side, you will need to up that initial value substantially since the commitment alone lowered your social status from alpha to beta, and she will instinctively try to beta-ize you even more.

So, ironically,with regard to the amount of work you put in to game the women, it is easier to have one night stands than to be in a relationship.This is important since many men hearing about Game say they “just” want a monogamous relationship. Yet, what they seek is the hardest of all possible options:

If you lack Game, you are almost guaranteed to fail in your relationship (think: maternal frigidity, paternity theft, divorce etc).

If you have some Gaming skills, you can have more sex than most married men but you still might fail (think: the initial successes of PUAs, just to end up being dumped after a short time)

You need Game at the mastery level for initial attraction and long term attraction to avoid fail (think again about “just” having a girl friend)

There is almost no material out there on how to use what we learned as men about the female psyche for pick-up purposes within relationships (we will talk about the glorious exceptions in this and following posts). Yet, many men seek relationships (whether it is one or many; serial or in parallel). And this includes some of the greatest "Ladies Men" on the web. No wonder then that one of roissy's most popular posts was on relationship game. The success story roissy recounts of his reader "Dave in Hawaii" who turned around his ailing marriage thanks to what he learned about Game really is worth a read.

And Dave in Hawaii is not the only one. The other day I stumbled up a post by The Real Assanova wholinked to this blog on "Married Man Sex Life". I share Assanova's enthusiasm. This site is sheer excellence, even for us non-married guys. The author's autobiography sounds like that of Joe Average from Everytown, USA:
"I’ve never been overly excited about the idea of marriage... She always seemed to like the idea, and honestly I never really thought about what I was doing getting married. I just wanted to sleep with her. All. The. Time. So I just got married to her. No question of whether it was really a good idea or not."
The crucial difference to the standard story of Modern American Life is this:
"We’re hitting 15 years together, and apparently that’s twice the national average."
And how does he think he did that?
"My approach to marriage is part a married spin on Game, part Evolutionary Psychology, part Sex Ed, part Self-Help. Mostly it’s about learning what it is about you that unlocks the Holy Grail between your wifes legs."


The secret to his success is:
"Staying sexually attractive ... is a life long requirement."

And this is achieved via the Golden Rule of Relationship Game:
"Alpha Male traits build sexual attraction. Beta Male traits build relationship comfort. 
A male failing to supply either of these two generalized needs, will cause a female to become unhappy, and likely seek satisfaction outside the marriage, or simply become depressed and cut sex down to the minimum to sustain the relationship."

This really sums it up. While the easiest, fastest and most promising way of getting into a woman's pants is to come across as High Status Male, this is not sufficient for keeping her around. Likewise, it is easiest to default into a Provider Male role during  relationship, but it will get her to gradually lose any sexual interest. In order to have mind blowing sex with the same woman over and over again, a man needs to be able to juggle both opposing forces.

This is why there is need for Relationship Game. It is the most desirable of women only who a man of options would like to see (and do) more than once. And it is the most desirable women who demand the highest degree of this kind of double-satisfaction.

29 comments:

  1. Interesting that you never use the word "respect". Respect and trust are the foundation for an LTR. After the euphoric seduction wears off, she'll stay if she respects him and his missions in life. If she finds him to be an empty shell, she'll leave.

    He's got to have an interesting life, friends, recreation. He's got to have a solid moral compass. He should plan parties, vacations, build things, fix things, and have skills out the wazzo. He should be politically aware and a nurturing father. He should take care of everyone around him. Seduction skills are thin gruel.

    You ramble on with theory here. What are your LTR stats? 10 years? 30 years?
    Your theories alone make for stale reading.

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  2. In order to have mind blowing sex with the same woman over and over again, a man needs to be able to juggle both opposing forces.

    From my point of view, the "beta traits" he's talking about can -- nay, SHOULD -- still be done from an "alpha" frame.

    Otherwise, I agree, he's got a site full of good advice.

    Speaking of Roissy's post, I'm still getting people that email me all the time, asking me for advice. A lot of guys actually read Roissy's initial post, than they scour the Spearhead before they figure out I'm DfH, than they come to my blog and scour it.

    I guess there must be a lot of men waking up to the realities of gender relations lately.

    I think I'll just start referring these advice seekers to this guy's site.

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  3. In order to have mind blowing sex with the same woman over and over again, a man needs to be able to juggle both opposing forces.

    In order to have sex with the same woman, she needs to experience orgasms. Sex without is OKay, but as the years go on, she'll find less satisfaction with sex, and eventually bore with it. If a man can help her to orgasm and understand her, she'll adore him.

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  4. A big trap to a man's long term attraction is excessive work. Workoholism diminishes his scope of life, and makes him a bore. By saying "yes" to work, he's stating "no" to his family. His social skills diminish, get repetitive and are relevant only to his work environment.

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  5. When the babies are born, a woman will use the babies" needs to grab relationship power. A husband must prioritize the marriage over the parent/baby needs in the long run, although baby's needs will be the short term priority. It is counterintuitive, but the children will flourish when their needs are secondary. A father can regain marriage power by caring for the kids himself sufficient to counter the mother's claims.

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  6. After the euphoric seduction wears off, she'll stay if she respects him and his missions in life.
    You describe a feeling that women (want to) get with certain men. I explain how it comes about.

    He's got to have an interesting life, friends, recreation. He's got to have a solid moral compass. He should plan parties, vacations, build things...
    In most cases it is women, not men, who want the seducer to enter a relationship. Men who are matching your wish list are even less prone to "settle" given the manifold options they have and the joy a man gets from sexual variety. Given that, you almost sound like a hostage setting terms to the kidnapper.

    Your theories alone make for stale reading.
    As nice as anecdotes are for their emotional value, there is only so much you take from one random experience.
    This having said, I might mix in some of my own observations. My longest LTR tops the average duration of American marriages.

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  7. @ Dave - From my point of view, the "beta traits" he's talking about can -- nay, SHOULD -- still be done from an "alpha" frame.
    The model I find most appealing is that of the "Rapid Lover-Provider Switch" by Franco. His book is even better than that guy's site.

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  8. In order to have sex with the same woman, she needs to experience orgasms
    I disagree. The jury is still out there when it comes to anorgasmic women, but if she never had an orgasm before, she will not miss it in your relationship. Likewise, giving women lots of orgasms alone will not prevent her from cheating.

    It is true, however, that the better you do, the more orgasmic she will be. One of the first warning signs is a decline in her orgasmability.

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  9. In an LTR, seduction game will eventually feel like manipulation to a women,even if she was naive initially. Him being unreliable, emotionally aloof, and inconsistant will get annoying.

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  10. A big trap to a man's long term attraction is excessive work.
    Excellent point.
    Yet, women can go for long stretches of time without their man. Pimps and alphas with large harems can attest to that.

    Plus, there is a gender difference as to what defines a great relationship.
    Women will happily hang on to their Provider even if there is no more sex. Men are quick to leave once another man starts inseminating the woman they care and pay for.

    So, when women think about what kind of man and relationship situation they would leave, it is a very different situation than when men thinks about that.

    A hard working, well earning man is likely to be kept as "good hubbie". The pool boy might take care of the rest.

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  11. A father can regain marriage power by caring for the kids himself sufficient to counter the mother's claims.
    Interesting point. My series will not cover fatherhood and the problems that come with that, so please do not hesitate on commenting if you have more to say about that.

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  12. Given that, you almost sound like a hostage setting terms to the kidnapper.


    NO. I'm describing a man who deserves respect.
    Given your description, I think you are describing a lesser man. I may have misunderstood your intention.

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  13. In an LTR, seduction game will eventually feel like manipulation to a women,even if she was naive initially. Him being unreliable, emotionally aloof, and inconsistant will get annoying.
    You judge a book by its cover. Wait until there is more about what relationship game actually is about. What this post hints at already is that too much unreliability and aloofness will lead to trouble. My claim is that none of that will lead to trouble, too. A man needs to stay a little bit "mysterious" or the woman will get bored.

    This having said, what works and what doesn't in a relationship should not be left up to intuition. As said on this blog many times before, women dream up Provider fantasies when they quiz themselves about their dream man.

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  14. Him being unreliable, emotionally aloof, and inconsistant will get annoying.

    That depends upon the subject manner for which the man is being unreliable, aloof and inconsistent about.

    A man who is reliably attentive and consistently placating and supplicating is in far more trouble than a man who is all of those things you supposedly list as negative traits.

    There is a definite nuance involved.

    Why do suspect "anonymous" is a female?

    heh.

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  15. Hawaiian,
    Yes, I am a woman . Do you have a problem with that?

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  16. A woman with an obvious chip on her shoulder. Calm down, dear. :)

    I was merely observing your "style" here.

    The telling solipsism and the "not all women are like that" mentality are fairly evident and a dead give away.

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  17. Hawaiian,
    Are you unable to speak with women?

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  18. Hawaiian,
    Please answer my question. What problem do you have communicating here with a woman?

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  19. Hawaiian,
    Where did I state "I'm not like that?"
    Where have I been "solipistic"?
    Where, exactly, do I seem to have a chip on my shoulder?

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  20. Hawaian,

    Well, if I am a woman you can not communicate with , then please scroll on. I'll give you the same space.
    Thanks.

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  21. and Alpha Blogger,

    If your personal experience is limited to 5-7 years, and you have no children, please be open about your limitations.

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  22. Hi there, thanks very much for the link love and kind words.

    I do agree with Dave that the Beta traits need to be framed with the Alpha ones. There is a difference between cleaning the house, and leading the house cleaning for example.

    Also much of my marriage success is simply through dumb luck in doing many things unwittingly right. Much of what I've done over the last few years is try and figure out why.

    There is still a great deal more work to do on my site in fleshing out my framework and method. Stay tuned.

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  23. Always have interesting posts on this site.

    Looking forward to reading the series. I'm sure it will prove insightful.

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  24. What PUAs fail to understand time and time again is that LTR game is only necessary if you are involved with an utterly dysfunctional woman. Incidentally, this is the only type of woman that PUAs are ever involved with.

    The success story roissy recounts of his reader "Dave in Hawaii" who turned around his ailing marriage thanks to what he learned about Game really is worth a read.

    Or he could just marry someone who isn't so dysfunctional that she has to be "gamed" for the rest of her life. That works too.

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  25. It's not the dysfunctional woman that needs to be gamed a little in a LTR, it's the attractive one.

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  26. Thank you for this. I have spent over 10 years practicing the art of long terms. Game almost takes care of itself in the beginning of a meeting and into the first few months to a year in my opinion if the like is mutual. It is only after the sheen wears off that you have to be conscious of keeping attraction strong. Good sexual attraction bonds just as strongly as a good friendship connect and it keeps the relationship in the romantic realm, which is when it can be healthiest and most satisfying. If a couple stops having sex for a relatively long stint, regardless of the reason(s), there are problems. Game can do wonders with for this. I am not well rehearsed in fast seduction but slow release seduction, a.k.a. a long term, is what I have my phd in. I look forward to see how you explore this and it is much appreciated.

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    Replies
    1. @anoukange, would be very interested to get in contact with you, regarding your phd. Do you have an email where I could reach you?

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  27. Too bad Hawaiin feels dismissive of women sometimes. I agree at least partly with Supercop; understanding sex and what masculine traits are attractive is one thing, but minimizing everything into calculated one-sized moves or planned actions is faulty. So are a lot of the links here, but that tends to be the way with non-Christian sites, esp. ones who offer solutions for happy lives/marriages (i.e., a mixed bag). Takes more than game for a long convenantal marriage.

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